Sound Recorder and Induction Recording Questions

Hey all.  Currently at the parks trying this out, and I hope one of you can help before I leave.  I got the Permanent Glue Dots which hold up well against surfaces and speakers, but not so much (or at all) against the suction cup itself.  Help?
 
Yes, the suction cup is pretty useless for use with glue dots. I find the suction cup only has a use where you just use it as a base to rest (not stick) the mic on the top of those mushroom speakers as long as there is no danger of moving it (ie catching the wire) or using adhesive tape to secure it. I think maybe we took the removal for granted, sorry. I have yet to find a surface that it will actually stick to using suction (apart from a plastic phone, of course)  ;)
 
Quick answer to jmercer25's question: stick the glue dot on the opposite end of the induction pickup, the somewhat rounded cap.  The suction cup is smooth vinyl which most doesn't work well with most removable adhesives.

The suction cup does work for short recordings from metal cylindrical speakers used in planters and landscaping, but not the plastic type.
 
"Short" being the operative word  ;D Not found any metal speakers at DLRP (yet). Never though about turning it over - Doh! Of course, it's not directional like a mic!  :-\
 
Do you rotate the induction pickup a full 360 degrees in all three axes when checking for the optimal signal level and quality from a speaker?  That's how I found out the "back end" of the pickup works as well as the "front end" ;).
 
No, I've just either popped the sucker side on top of the speaker or held it by hand. I tried the glue dots but started to imagine CMs closing in on me so stopped using them (you can replace the rubber sucker, of course).  I do tend to be over cautious - just my nature I guess.
 
Here's a little report from my first attempt at induction recording:

I went to Universal Orlando yesterday with a few audio samples in mind.  Some of the stuff was really great, others not so much. 

As far as ambient music is concerned, I've found the mushroom speakers to be my best friends...well, some of them.  I saw three different versions.  One of them had some metal mesh about the size of a baseball under the "cap"; these ended up being my best recordings.  There was also a version where the metal mesh was missing; literally was just a hole in the speaker.  Didn't get anything from these.  Then there was a third kind where the flat underside of the "cap" was the speaker, and I got some decent stuff from this. 

I had no luck whatsoever from "pole" speakers, which was frustrating because they are so accessible.  Luckily I usually found mushrooms speakers nearby.  Can anyone explain why these don't work?  Or maybe it would if I recorded but the audio level didn't fluctuate?  I could put my ear right up to it and it'd be blaring, but it did nothing for the recorder  :-\ That's true of multiple sources, btw.

On-ride recordings were interesting.  Spider-Man and Transformers have (I believe) a 16-channel audio system, but I think it's just so each rider has their own speaker (12 riders per vehicle) and then there's two of each door, so I recorded the two sources separately.  I tried Forbidden Journey but it came out really quiet.  Maybe I can work with it.  What software do you guys use?  I'm on a Mac.  Audacity maybe?

There were a few that I really wanted to get, like Cinematic Spectacular, MIB and One Fish (just the song "One Fish, Red Fish, up up up, Two Fish, Blue Fish, down down down") but there were issues.  For CineSpec, the accessible mushroom speakers played the prelude, postlude and show announcement audio wonderfully, but the show music was only decent and there was no monologue or movie audio i.e. Freeman's narration and clips.  For MIB, I just didn't see the speakers.  I thought they might have been the vented part of the vehicles above the blasters but I wasn't sure.  For One Fish, I recorded the mushroom speakers in the queue but those were only ambient audio and never played the song itself.  Seems like the higher speakers played the audio.  On that note, does anyone have tips for accessing higher speakers?  There was some great audio in the Doom queue that I was really tempted to get, but it would have required strapping my recorder to the ceiling as well.  Camouflage duct tape?  ;)

All in all, I got some good stuff.  I plan on going out and trying again, several times.  It was really neat to go to the parks focusing so much on the audio.  I'm sure I looked strange checking my phone in the middle of a queue or at some points, wading in the bushes (I tried to be discrete, I swear), but it's wonderful focusing on an oft-ignored layer of theme parks.  Special thanks to all who have mentored me in this great new hobby!
 
Could you take pictures of the various speakers the next time you're there?  I want to see if Universal Studios Hollywood uses the same or similar speakers.

I found Audacity difficult and somewhat painful to use compared to Soundforge.  If you have Boot Camp and Windows installed, try Wavosaur.
 
They still have the original type at DLRP which give good results and even usable results when here is hardly any volume coming from them (good enough to listen too anyway). Do they still have these in the US parks? Not seen any mushroom types with metal grills or holes there though. (photo from allears.net)
 

Attachments

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896742004&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-Home%20Audio%20Speakers-_-TIC%20Corporation-_-96742004&cm_sp=&AID=10440897&PID=2402025&SID=
if anyone is thinking of getting that authentic park sound (cheaper here). GS3 omni speaker as used in the parks.

This photo seems to show just the one speaker though.
http://www.justgardenspeakers.com/pro_omnispeaker_8_spk_200w.asp

The GS3 is mentioned on the site as being the one used at Disneyland in a customer's enquiry.
 
Aha!  The GS3 is a coaxial speaker design; i.e., the 2 inch tweeter is in the center of the 8 inch woofer.  The sweet spot should be the dead center of the top lid or slightly off-center, depending on the shape of the tweeter's magnetic field.  Thanks for the links eyore!
 
I'll definitely get pictures next time I'm there.  I'll get pictures of the pole speakers too so you guys know what I'm talking about.
 
pixelated said:
Aha!  The GS3 is a coaxial speaker design; i.e., the 2 inch tweeter is in the center of the 8 inch woofer.  The sweet spot should be the dead center of the top lid or slightly off-center, depending on the shape of the tweeter's magnetic field.  Thanks for the links eyore!
Click to expand...

Yes, dead centre or within a 1/2 inch of it ;D
Makes life a lot easier (place mic on top, fold coat over top of speaker - rock steady).
 
jmercer25,

Did you try recording the Marvel Super Hero Island area music or any of the Port of Entry/main entrance loops? If so, what kind of results did you get?
 
Mara,

Didn't record MSHI just for priority reasons, but I got about an 8-minute clip of the Call to Adventure loop, as well as about 20 minutes of Ocean Trader Market ;) I'm happy with the results.
 
Glad to hear the results were good. Is your recording of Ocean Trader Market the entire loop?

I'm planning on trying to record some music at IOA whenever I'm able to visit FL again. I've been wondering in general how accessible the speakers are there. Were there any loops you tried to record but could not find any suitable speakers?

Also, I'm curious if the employees/security guards ever noticed you recording and approached you about it?

And finally, about how long are the area music loops generally? For some reason, to me, the IOA loops seem to be shorter than the average loops at WDW. The IOA loops seem to be around 30 minutes each, but that's only a guess. I'm trying to get an idea of how much time I need to plan on setting aside whenever I'm able to go.

Thanks for the information.
 
Mara said:
Glad to hear the results were good. Is your recording of Ocean Trader Market the entire loop?

I'm planning on trying to record some music at IOA whenever I'm able to visit FL again. I've been wondering in general how accessible the speakers are there. Were there any loops you tried to record but could not find any suitable speakers?

Also, I'm curious if the employees/security guards ever noticed you recording and approached you about it?

And finally, about how long are the area music loops generally? For some reason, to me, the IOA loops seem to be shorter than the average loops at WDW. The IOA loops seem to be around 30 minutes each, but that's only a guess. I'm trying to get an idea of how much time I need to plan on setting aside whenever I'm able to go.

Thanks for the information.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I don't think it's the whole loop.  This was more or less of a test, so I didn't stick around for as long as I should have.  How do you know when the loop restarts?  Is there an easy way in post to see the overlap?

Mushroom speakers were quite accessible, but there were many speakers I deemed inaccessible as a novice.  IOA has quite a lot of pole speakers, but luckily there were mushroom speakers nearby playing the same loop.

I was never once approached, but since it was my first time, I was very discreet about it.  What do you guys usually say in those situations?

Also, do you guys ever leave your recorder behind?  I didn't because there's a risk of it being stolen or people thinking it's something it's not.  But do you really sit on a bench for an hour during your vacation?  Because that's dedication to your craft ;)
 
I'm pretty new to recording audio as well, so I don't have as much knowledge or experience as others here.

While recording in the park, I just try to listen carefully for the music to start repeating. This isn't a foolproof method because some loops use the same track twice, so you have to be careful and hope for the best. I haven't had time yet to learn how to do any editing or post processing, so I can't comment on that.

I have never been approached when recording, but there have been a few times where I wanted to record something and knew Cast Members would notice and probably get suspicious. In those situations, I would find a Cast Member, explain that I wanted to record the audio, and ask if it would be a problem. They have always been nice and allowed me to record without any problems, but I'm sure there are some Cast Members who would have a problem with it.

I usually don't leave my recorder behind, but there have been a few occasions where it would look very suspicious to be standing in a certain place for any lengthy amount of time. In those situations, I try to find a place where my recorder won't be easily noticed and place it there, and then go find a less conspicuous spot to stand/sit but still where I can keep an eye on my recorder in case someone notices it.

Depending on how much I want a particular loop, sometimes I'll get everything hooked up and recording and then let a family member who doesn't like to do the more thrilling attractions stay behind with it.
 
I've never been brave enough to actually ask a CM. Yes, we got caught out with the Dumbo loop which appears to repeat after around 16 minutes BUT it's a two section repeat (and here's the catch) the second play-through omits one track (Circus Days) that's in the first so the full loop lasts 30:16
Filmographik spotted this.
http://www.magicmusic.net/blog/5/entry-121-dumbo-fantasyland-dlrp/

Again, not brave enough to leave the recorder hidden somewhere but my wife is happy to monitor the recording as she's unable to access most of the rides (she can only ride Small World, Buzz Lightyear, The Railroad and the paddle steamers as she can't transfer to any of the others (too high or too low) or the shows.  She welcomes the rest, I think.
Magicmusic is handy for checking on loop times (our blog for DLRP and Horizon's for WDW) and can be used as a guide (including making notes of the track names so you now where about in the loop you are).
I'm full of admiration for those with telescopic rods and such and the ability to find a signal inside seemingly solid objects.
 
Does anyone have any tips or tricks to finding the speaker coil in certain speakers?  These pole speakers are still giving me trouble, as well as some others.  I've only had real luck with the mushroom speakers.

Also, has anyone found a way to be sneaky with high speakers?  Maybe Bluetooth transmitter/receiver?
 
I've never been able to find a signal on pole speakers. Maybe I just don't try hard enough. Some speakers are well inside objects so you just can't get the coil near enough and, for those out of reach, some use telescopic rods (the brave ones). Directional mice can be good for live recordings but leaving transmitters etc behind things is going to get unwanted attention (and possibly a night in the cells). You may as well just leave your recorder there and hope (a) nobody sees you and (b) it's still there when you get back - or at least if someone sees it, admit that it's yours and hope they give it back.
 
I'm wondering what on earth I was saying in my last post. Directional mice  ??? I suppose  I fasten a mic to them and send them up the pole  ;D
 
It's just that I've found some great audio in ceiling speakers and I don't want to look suspicious running a cable up.  I've found some small Bluetooth transmitters, and it seems like the best wireless option.  I wouldn't leave it; I'd stand near it so I get a good sound without drawing attention.

Can anyone recommend a good directional microphone?
 
It's still going to be tricky sticking electrical equipment on to the speakers. Don't be surprised if you get taken in by security as a possible terrorist! You'd certainly get thrown out of the park and probably banned for life. Don't think this sort of thing hasn't been considered by those here who do a LOT of recording on a regular basis - plus the fact that they may well really clamp down on recording in general. Don't have a directional mic, only those on the zoom H2.
 
well, if you think about it, several members have been questioned when just using a hand held simple recorder to record in the parks. It's not something that Disney likes people to do so you have to be discreet about it . Once you get into transmitting and hidden devices, you really are asking for it though.  ;D
 
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